Bad Bad news from my 306 - Page 2

Wickd GT · 01-30-2008, 11:18 AM

A high volume pump will sent more oil to the top, and which in a hyr cam is what you want, it is not going to push that much oil at the valve train, but in a solid roller it does push a lot of oil at the top, which is what mine is doing right now, but I have restrictor pushrods, .040" in each one. I shift at 7200rpms on the juice, and going down the track it has 80psi of oil. This last time I took apart the motor, there were no signs of oil starvation, but oil not getting out of the main bearings quick enough, the reason for the 3/4 groove HP bearings. About the the oil pump robbing HP, in a stock car yes, but in a motor like mine I have not seen it, another thing, you do not need an oil cooler with a high volume pump, lotsa people think of that, but the warmer the oil more hp. You want the oil temp at 150-180* when a pass is been done. Depending on the clearences the engine has, that is when the standard of HV pump is decided to use.

Edgar

EHardy1971 · 01-30-2008, 11:21 AM

Ok,I gotcha! I was referring to a stock engine(one set up like yours does need a HV pump).On the oil cooler,I was using that as an example in the fact that you usually need a HV pump when you install an oil cooler,instead of the other way around.

88scgt · 01-30-2008, 12:26 PM

well i do have a 7 quart pan and i have always used a high volume pump. as for loss of power i dunno the car makes plenty of power. made 550rwhp through a c4. there were no scratches in the cylinder walls just the hone marks gone in a few of the walls. i will be going home this weekend to get it back together. i have alot of other things to do aswell like new rear suspension. my car is notorious for not hooking, tired of that. i think i will be in mid 6's, and mid to low 10's here in a few weeks

coupe · 01-30-2008, 01:09 PM

No matter the pump...if pressure reads low on idle or anywhere, you have a problem.

Check clearances. Check them again. Spin motor over a few times and do it one more time.

QWKSNKE · 01-30-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Italian LX

That highly unlikely.

not in a 5 qt pan it isn't. I know someone who has done it and is a reason I will NEVER run a high volume pump in my cars.

EHardy1971 · 01-30-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coupe

No matter the pump...if pressure reads low on idle or anywhere, you have a problem.

Check clearances. Check them again. Spin motor over a few times and do it one more time.

Some may think it's over kill,but I always plasti-gauge mine twice.Once during initial clearance checks,and a second time after I torque it all down,and like Coupe said,rotate the crank a couple of times.

BAD INT · 01-30-2008, 02:20 PM

hv pumps are pan drainers but you just don't throw them at any engine,as with any custom engine you make necessary adjustments for them.As far as the cross hatch most of the engines I build for racing or hp street my cylinders look like chrome or have very minor cross hatch just because you dont see it doesnt mean its bad.just make sure there arent major wear areas I know most people dont have bore guages at home but its worth a trip to the local machine shop.A lot of times just a quick hone with a christmas (one with the balls) brush just to take any glaze or stuck particles is all that is needed.Someone who doesnt know how to correctly use a stone hone will kill your clearances quickly and you will have piston rock or rattle when the engine is warm. Was you 550hp n/a or power adder?

Italian LX · 01-30-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QWKSNKE

not in a 5 qt pan it isn't. I know someone who has done it and is a reason I will NEVER run a high volume pump in my cars.

I was refering to it's use with a large capacity pan... since that's what Edgar had just recommended in his previous post.

88scgt · 01-30-2008, 03:36 PM

my block is at the machine shop getting honed. the cylinders looked great just no cross hatching. as far as the building of my engine the clearences were checked twice. the oil pump just went bad. most likely the main reason is b/c on the pick up there was a small hole in the mesh. i think a piece of trash got in the oil pump. the oil pressure at idle was not always low. i have had this engine built for two years and it just started having low oil pressure last time to the track, usualy at idle it is around 25 to 30 but last time to the track it dropped to 14 -16. the car has been run very hard lots of racing etc.. the engine is a 306 with forged lunati pistons bpm forged h beam rods stock crank. has world product heads ported and polished w 2.02 1.60 valves, 1.7 rockers. the cam is pretty radical not sure of duration but the lift is 586 with 112 degree lobe seperation. trick flow upper and lower with a vortech s trim at 14 psi, car made 550 with a c4 and went 6.7 at 101 and 10.8 at 127. car should run better now with new suspension in rear. i always use a hv pump b/c of the 7qt pan with an arp shaft.

EHardy1971 · 01-30-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Italian LX

I was refering to it's use with a large capacity pan... since that's what Edgar had just recommended in his previous post.

I was talking about a factory pan,I thought that's what 88scgt had at first,but he clarified later that he had a large capacity pan.

01-30-2008, 11:21 AM	#12
EHardy1971 Trunk Monkey Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Home Posts: 5,708	Ok,I gotcha! I was referring to a stock engine(one set up like yours does need a HV pump).On the oil cooler,I was using that as an example in the fact that you usually need a HV pump when you install an oil cooler,instead of the other way around. __________________ Eric 89 LX Coupe-Juiced 01 Lightning-Boost 06 TBSS

01-30-2008, 01:09 PM	#14
coupe Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,313	No matter the pump...if pressure reads low on idle or anywhere, you have a problem. Check clearances. Check them again. Spin motor over a few times and do it one more time. __________________ " If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. " - Albert Einstein

01-30-2008, 11:18 AM	#11
Wickd GT Friends Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,645	A high volume pump will sent more oil to the top, and which in a hyr cam is what you want, it is not going to push that much oil at the valve train, but in a solid roller it does push a lot of oil at the top, which is what mine is doing right now, but I have restrictor pushrods, .040" in each one. I shift at 7200rpms on the juice, and going down the track it has 80psi of oil. This last time I took apart the motor, there were no signs of oil starvation, but oil not getting out of the main bearings quick enough, the reason for the 3/4 groove HP bearings. About the the oil pump robbing HP, in a stock car yes, but in a motor like mine I have not seen it, another thing, you do not need an oil cooler with a high volume pump, lotsa people think of that, but the warmer the oil more hp. You want the oil temp at 150-180* when a pass is been done. Depending on the clearences the engine has, that is when the standard of HV pump is decided to use. Edgar

01-30-2008, 12:26 PM	#13
88scgt Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Auburn Posts: 46	well i do have a 7 quart pan and i have always used a high volume pump. as for loss of power i dunno the car makes plenty of power. made 550rwhp through a c4. there were no scratches in the cylinder walls just the hone marks gone in a few of the walls. i will be going home this weekend to get it back together. i have alot of other things to do aswell like new rear suspension. my car is notorious for not hooking, tired of that. i think i will be in mid 6's, and mid to low 10's here in a few weeks

01-30-2008, 02:20 PM	#17
BAD INT Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 184	hv pumps are pan drainers but you just don't throw them at any engine,as with any custom engine you make necessary adjustments for them.As far as the cross hatch most of the engines I build for racing or hp street my cylinders look like chrome or have very minor cross hatch just because you dont see it doesnt mean its bad.just make sure there arent major wear areas I know most people dont have bore guages at home but its worth a trip to the local machine shop.A lot of times just a quick hone with a christmas (one with the balls) brush just to take any glaze or stuck particles is all that is needed.Someone who doesnt know how to correctly use a stone hone will kill your clearances quickly and you will have piston rock or rattle when the engine is warm. Was you 550hp n/a or power adder?

01-30-2008, 03:36 PM	#19
88scgt Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Auburn Posts: 46	my block is at the machine shop getting honed. the cylinders looked great just no cross hatching. as far as the building of my engine the clearences were checked twice. the oil pump just went bad. most likely the main reason is b/c on the pick up there was a small hole in the mesh. i think a piece of trash got in the oil pump. the oil pressure at idle was not always low. i have had this engine built for two years and it just started having low oil pressure last time to the track, usualy at idle it is around 25 to 30 but last time to the track it dropped to 14 -16. the car has been run very hard lots of racing etc.. the engine is a 306 with forged lunati pistons bpm forged h beam rods stock crank. has world product heads ported and polished w 2.02 1.60 valves, 1.7 rockers. the cam is pretty radical not sure of duration but the lift is 586 with 112 degree lobe seperation. trick flow upper and lower with a vortech s trim at 14 psi, car made 550 with a c4 and went 6.7 at 101 and 10.8 at 127. car should run better now with new suspension in rear. i always use a hv pump b/c of the 7qt pan with an arp shaft.